Ian Grant and Evan Laffer discuss their excellent Jokermen podcast, which explores the work of people like Bob Dylan, the Velvet Underground, and the Fall among others, David Berman and Silver Jews, Dub Thompson, Ought, and American Football, music journalism today, the podcaster plight, and the pervasiveness of podcasts, their Never Ending Stories show, community-building, future plans, and much more. Supported by you on Patreon, Blackbyrd Myoozik, Pizza Trokadero, the Bookshelf, Planet Bean Coffee, and Grandad’s Donuts. Support Y.E.S.S. and Black Women United YEG. Follow vish online.